276 | The Naked Gun Writers Doug Mand & Dan Gregor on Fearless Comedy and Trusting the Process

In this episode, THE NAKED GUN writers Doug Mand and Dan Gregor take us inside the making of one of the boldest studio comedies in years. They break down how they approached structure in a spoof film, why emotional arcs matter just as much as jokes, and how committing fully to the stupidest ideas can sometimes be the smartest choice.

Doug and Dan talk candidly about fearlessness, rejection, impostor syndrome, and why every movie is a miracle. It’s ultimately a funny, honest, and deeply encouraging conversation about sustaining a creative life in comedy.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Lorien: Hey everyone. Welcome back to The Screenwriting Life, I'm Lorien McKenna, and today I'm joined by longtime collaborators, Doug Mand and Dan Gregor, who wrote and produced The Naked Gun reboot starring Liam Neeson that came out earlier this year. 

Dan and Doug wrote and produced the Emmy award-winning Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers for Disney, How I Met Your Mother on CBS Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, The CW, the Comedians on FX, and Pretty Smart, which is on Netflix. They also co-wrote Most Likely To Murder with Dan Directing and Doug co-starring, which premiered at South by Southwest and was later acquired by Lionsgate and Hulu. He also began his career as a founding member of the award-winning sketch troupe Hammerkatz.

So I'm really excited to talk to you all about The Naked Gun and writing and how optimistic we all are about our futures and our careers, and I'm being sincere about that. But first we're gonna talk about our weeks. What we like to call adventures in screenwriting. So I'll go first. So I adopted a puppy.

Doug: Oh, congratulations. 

Lorien: Thank you. 

Doug: So that's huge. 

Lorien: Well, it wasn't. Yes, so. Joey Tuccio, who runs Roadmap Writers, and is a huge advocate for animals texted me ‘hi,’ and then sent a picture of this puppy to foster for a week, and I was like sure I can do that. No, I can't. After four days I was like, this is my dog. That didn't work out the way I planned, but, oh, she's great. Doug, how was your week?

Doug: My week was great. You know, coming back in from Thanksgiving where I feel like my body is just like, you gotta stop putting cheesecake and stuffing into me. And I had a round table. I don't know if this is interesting or you guys have spoken about this on the show.

Lorien: Oh no. But great. 

Doug: So I, for those who don't know sometimes for movies and television shows, but you know, definitely movies that are on the way to production. Maybe they've been green lit for production, or they're kind of, there's a blinking yellow light of the movie's gonna get made or not. It needs another draft. 

A studio or producers will send the script out to some other writers to read it and whether, and maybe they're looking for just jokes, a joke pass, maybe they're looking for certain, sometimes they'll ask for set pieces, ideas for set pieces, ways to and then also what's working, what's not. It kind of depends. 

Usually you get an email saying, this is what we're looking for, or it's just like, read it and let us know what you think. So I got a script and spent the day reading it because it came with a letter from the director asking for certain things like, you know, and it was one of the kind of broader like, ‘what's working, what's not working?’

It's all on the table. And then I'm specifically looking for set piece jokes here and here. And so I prepped all, you know, on Wednesday reading, and I, you know, Dan and I have been doing these for a while. I take them very seriously. I also think they're really fun but hard 'cause you know, you spend the day prepping and then went in yesterday and you're just working straight from nine or ten till five and it's just, you know, an intense day, but can be great.

And you're usually around other great writers and you're discussing a film. So I got to do that yesterday and it was wonderful. And you know, I gotta see some people that I had done this with before and other people who I have admired from far and got to be next to them and talk to them and listen to what, you know, what their experiences have been.

Kind of almost a mini podcast like this where we're just like, ‘what are you working on? What's your experience been the last couple months? What are you watching?’ All that kind of stuff. And it's great. And it really is kind of the way that Dan and I kind of broke into studio filmmaking a little bit, you know,

Dan: I think it helped a lot that we had come from tv.

Doug: Yes.

Dan: 'Cause we were really good at being room writers and like being part of a, like a thought flow and like riffing and being able to really think on our feet like that. Which is not a skill that every screenwriter develops because it's a very isolating job. And so I think we stood out in a lot of these rooms because we were just like, yeah let's come up with a billion ideas today.

Doug: Yeah. And I think, yeah, a lot of the rules that you might give a new staff writer apply to a round table room and it's just, it's basically a writer's room on steroids. 'Cause it's just like all in one day. A lot of things have to happen. So all of those qualities you want in a new staff writer, you want times ten for this because it's really about reading the room, reading what the director or the writer or the producer really wants and being able to give them what they want as opposed to you just speaking, you know, going on diatribes about, you know, your thoughts on the script. And those are not as important as certain point at how can I make the script better? Especially if they're going off to shoot soon, it's really about like, what can you actually get done on this? And yeah, Dan and I, having been in writers' rooms for so long, I think are good at adjusting to what the showrunner or the director wants. Just give that to them.

Lorien: And it feels like when you're in the feature space, it's a chance to go be social and connect with other writers. Alright, Dan, how was your week?

Dan: My week is going good. I have two. I have, I'm gonna try to do this quickly. I have two things on the business side, like you [Doug] said. I'm doing a pilot with my wife right now, we're filming in January, so we're in the thick of pre-production right now, and it is a lot of casting and interviews.

It's so hard. It's so hard. The process is just, it's so difficult. I'm not gonna give any specifics, obviously, you're just desperate for someone to be like. Perfect. And you see so many people and they're all so talented and they're so wonderful, and, but like the gauntlet of getting through the writers, the producers, the casting directors, the layers of studio executives, the layers of network executives, then, and then the negotiation and the budget and all the things. 

It's just, it's so hard and it's crushing me right now. And so that's where I am emotionally today. I'm gonna leave this podcast to go do more casting and then I will talk about the flip side, which is I just got back from Thanksgiving in Disney World with my wife and daughter and I, it was first time I did like a real, like me-as-the-adult family trip. 

It's so stupid 'cause obviously it's Disney. Doug and I have worked for Disney a lot, many spent many years doing multiple projects there. But like being really immersed in this all encompassing Disney space was so illuminating about how much everything they do really has to work through eight different mediums. 

Like, you know, like I remember like my friend was a, is a documentarian and he was working for National Geographic and they got bought by Disney. And I was like, that's so weird. Like why would Disney want that? And then I go to the Animal Kingdom Park and like half the park is themed through National Geographic and I'm like, oh. That's why they bought it. 

That sort of realization of like the levels of Disney branding that like, you know, with Doug and I come in for a movie and we're like, why don't you just do something crazy? And they're like, ‘because you assholes, this needs to be an ice cream cone in, in 20 years from now.’ You're like, oh, okay. All right. Not my problem, but it is my problem. I got back from Disney and I'm in the throes of casting on this show. 

Lorien: So, I wanna talk about that for just a second, right? We pitch a TV, show you sell it, right? Takes months and months to like, make the deal, go through. You get to write the pilot. That takes a whole cycle. That's like another couple of months depending on everything and all those steps you talked about, all the approvals and then you get the green light to write the pilot or to make the pilot. Right, and yeah. 'Cause do you have a season order or do you just have a pilot order?

Dan: Nope, just a pilot, a backup script, but pilot order. 

Lorien: So you haven't done the writer's room yet. It's just you and your wife and you've written the pilot, you've written a backup script. Now you're casting for the pilot and basically you're making a whole TV show. So you have to imagine that this is gonna be like your life for the next five years.

Dan: Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I, but also I'm a broken person and so like I've been in this business long enough to know, like, I, you know, Doug and I have been selling things since we're in our early twenties and nevertheless, nobody has seen our hit TV show that we created. And so, you know, I go into everything with the complete assumption that it will fail tomorrow, which is really–

Doug: –we're really fun to hang out with–

Dan: –it's a weird mix because it's like, I just have come to understand that every single project at every single stage is just another lottery ticket you're buying and like, until the thing is out in the theater or on the TV screen, you're just, it's all make believe. 

Lorien: But how do you keep going? 

Dan: I don't know.

Lorien: I mean, that's a constant conversation we're having as writers in this, it's a business, you have to make a living. I always expect the big black boot to come out of the sky and kick me in the head right when I get a little too much hope. So you kind of have to like moderate it so you're not devastated when it happens.

Dan: Yes! And this is really important, this was the best lesson I think we ever got from a wonderful writer, Kourtney Kang, who we spent a lot of time with on How I Met Your Mother and she really tried to instill in us this belief that like, you need to celebrate the little wins that like if, you know, if you get that script order and it's like we ordered a script, that's as big of a win, as having a hit TV show. You have to be as happy about the little pieces as you are about the big ones. You can't only look at it as, like, the end goal is the point. Because again, even getting to the best version of the end goal is years in the making.

If you can be comfortable with a level of rejection and failure that is completely outside of the norm for almost anyone else in the world, then you can be a professional writer.

Doug: Yeah, I, yes, I think all those things are true. It's obviously not binary. Like you're not, like now I'm totally comfortable with getting notes and being, and having like, you know, you relearn these things constantly so you–

Dan: –Yes. 

Doug: It doesn't matter how many times you're rejected, it still hurts. You don't, like, I don't think you get, you can get a little bit better at it. Parts of you can be numbed to certain things, but I don't think, I don't think that's the goal. I think you like, and this is coming from someone who like does numb out and like kind of like just tries to be detached. 

But I think the goal is to not feel that way. The goal is to feel hope, I think. And I think the silver lining of having things rejected and not get bought, not get made, that is a lesson. We also, I think keep learning is that nothing dies. The work you're doing accumulates. It lives in your brain. It lives in your bones, it lives in your computer, and when you work on the next thing, you're gonna start taking pieces of things that you already have created. 

I think it's perspective too. I think it comes with perspective. It's just like that. It's also that finding joys outside of this thing, like this is no, I don't know anyone who's felt more fulfilled because they had a movie like it, it feels good. It feels like recognition, but it's not a long lasting feeling. 

You need a life outside of this thing. And whether that's a family, a dog, friends, a community it's all like you, you need that. That's what, like without getting too hippie dippy, like that's what life is about. And so you feel your feelings, but you can't expect that success is going to make you, is going to feel fulfilling on a total level. It's not you, for me, it's like you get a win and then a day later you're like, well, what's next?

Lorien: You told an amazing story about your first time having a breaking-in moment. Tell us.

Dan: Yeah. Well this is on the subject of failures and how you take it in emotionally. Because Doug and I are, for the first thing we sold a TV show that we were gonna star in. And it was, you know, when you're, you sell your first thing, it feels like everything, it feels like the entirety of your life is resting in that project. And, we sold the script and we developed the script. And then as what happens with, you know, 95% of everything, it dies somewhere along the way.

They didn't pick up, you know, our script to shoot. They picked up a show with Mick Jagger that season. And that night, like I, I went to bed like so, you know, existentially mortified that I had told everyone in my life that I was about to be a big star and like, yeah, my whole life's about to change and that, you know, I'm a, you know, don't even bother talking to me anymore 'cause I am Mr. Hollywood now. And then the next morning I woke up and I had psychosomatically thrown my back out and I was incapacitated. I literally couldn't walk. My legs wouldn't really move and I was like trapped in the bed. And Doug and I were sharing a hotel room with our third writing partner at the time, Adam Pally.

And I didn't of course think it was psychosomatic 'cause I’m not that smart. I just assumed that like, well I got some sort of random, you know, spinal disease in the night. And look at my luck. I lost a, I lost out on my career and I got a spinal disease. And of course, Doug and Pally were like, you're fine man. You're sad. And I was like no. This is a terrible disease I have. 

And we happened to have another pitch lined up that day for a movie, Doug and Pally went and they took it, took the meeting without me, 'cause I could not move. I mean, I literally couldn't move. I was like, I'm just gonna try to get a masseuse to come to the hotel room and like try to work out my legs to see if they can get 'em working again. 

And then they went out and they sold the movie and then when they came back they're like, dude, we sold a movie. And I was like, oh. Oh. And then I was like, my legs are feeling better And I was like, it's miracle. Maybe it was all in my brain. Yeah, exactly. No, that was like, that was the first real experience in how much it hurts to lose something that you've put all of your soul into. And then also realized that things keep moving.

Doug: I remember it so clearly. And I think Dan since has had a couple psychosomatic backs thrown out, but that was the most egregious one. But maybe I'm wrong.

Lorien: He's looking like, really? What are you accusing of me? 

Dan: I don't, I don't remember that. No. Everything else has been a real disease.

Lorien: It's a spinal disease. We'll come up with a name for it.

Doug: Yeah. Somehow we cured it by selling a pitch in the room.

Lorien: I, this is why it's always hard to say, to know when to say, I sold a show, or when is the time to celebrate the win? Like, I sold a show in the room, but it was like, did we just sell the show in the room? Is that a good thing? But then the contract comes in. Okay. I signed the contract. Okay. Is that the part that I celebrate? But when you say, I sold a show. It's so many things and nothing. So it's really hard 'cause people think, oh, you're making a TV show. 

Dan: Well, I don't know. There's no more heartbreaking moment than when you sell the thing and you're so excited and then you tell the civilians in your life or your like family back home and you're like, I sold the thing! And they're like, oh, cool, when can I see it? And you're like, probably never. And that's the moment where you realize, oh, everything I do is shit and I'm garbage still.

Doug: I mean, that's why I said this question as well, that was asked of me at a film festival in Austin. It was like about like some pinch me moment, and for me it was getting health insurance. Because that was real, that was tangible. I had it in my, I had a medical card in my hand that I could then go see doctors and dentists with and get money back from my shrink. That was to me the like a pinch me moment. And that's how my brain works a little bit. And also classically, between Dan and I'm the one who shares almost nothing about like, we sold it, we almost sold it like half the time.

My wife will be like, why didn't you tell me? And it's based out of fear and you know, well, it didn't really happen yet. It didn't happen until the check comes in the mail. Or, I like DocuSign something, or any of these things. And so part of that is my own sickness and inability to enjoy everything. But also like, I don't trust, I don't trust anything until it's, until three days after it's happened.

Dan: We've gotten jobs that have then like been taken away from us after the fact where you're like oh, we got the job, but we fucked up enough on day one that we lost it again.

Lorien: So you guys are just like a rainbow, sparkle, sprinkle, optimism, unicorn parade right now. It's great.  So, I wanna talk about Naked Gun. I talk about structure all the time on the show and with writers I work with. And nothing explains the plot goal as much as in your movie, the plot device, the MacGuffin, the physical goal of what everybody is after.And then there's, is it Exposition Stadium when they get there?

Doug: Ponzi-scheme.com Arena.

Lorien: There are so many clever things in there that are about structure that I found so satisfying, and also it's hilarious. Then you have Liam Neeson in there and the opening with the Girl Scout uniform and like, how did you get Liam Neeson involved in this project? He's not the kind, he's not like, oh, Leslie Nielsen, Liam Neeson. It's not a one-to-one.

Doug: There isn't. And that's one of the reasons we thought we could do this movie, Liam was already attached when we came on, and Akiva came on and in, in our minds, he was the reason to do it and the kind of green light, because Liam is his own thing. No one can ever be Leslie. Leslie was a unicorn, but Liam is his own actor with amazing gravitas and besides being in, in over a hundred films, his last fifteen years have been of the vigilante variety which had not been spoofed yet. So that was the thing. But also, like Leslie Nielsen was a character actor.

He wasn't a comedian before Zaz, like discovered him and put him in Airplane. So, and it's very much in the DNA of what Zaz created with the Zuckers and created was straight actors, character actors delivering these ridiculous lines in this world and not winking at the camera. So on first blush, Liam makes no sense, but then when you think about it, you're like, he's perfect.

Dan: And there's this interesting moment we find ourselves in too, where there's a real dearth of purely serious actors left. You know, so many of our serious actors have been taken up by the superhero movies and Marvel especially, which, you know, God bless it, but like has subsumed like comedy into the superhero space. And it's great for it, but it just means that like even your superheroes are still kind of winking all the time, they're all a little funny. And to really do justice to the Zucker's formula, we really, you know, you really do need to have people that can just be straight ahead. Serious actors saying the stupid things so that the jokes are the unusual element.

Lorien: It was great. Very well done. Were you scared when you got this property? Like, Hey, here's The Naked Gun franchise with Liam Neeson. Go.

Dan: Shitting our pants completely. I mean, it's something as comedy nerds as comedy nerds like this movie you know, and probably SpaceBalls more than anything, are the reason I have the life I have. You know, I mean they, they gave me the permission structure in my brain to even conceive of comedy as something important and elemental to myself as a person. And so, you know, and so, you know, we worshipped the Zucker Brothers and we worshiped this franchise.

So, walking into it, there was a ton of understanding that like, you know, I mean, we say it all the time, like if we didn't get this job, we would've spent the two years of press releases being like, fuck those people for doing this. Ruining our childhood. 

Doug: Yeah. How dare you. 

Dan: And so we were very aware that it was like in the back of our own heads, it was gonna be the front and center thought from every comedian and comedy fan that we know who are ultimately like the first line of the audience we care about. And so, you know, it was scary. But then you, that's, you ha writing is always an act of ignorance 'cause you're like, you always have to assume. You're gonna write something amazing from nothing.

Dan: And so that's what we, you know, we just really had to go hard at that lesson that we've learned over the course of our lives that, like a blank page is not a movie, but it will be a movie. And that's, it's just a process. Just trust the process like, we're just keep every day we clock into work, it's gonna get a little better and a little better. The billion jokes that this movie will eventually need. We'll just be built one joke at a time.

Lorien: So we say that a lot. Trust the process. What does that mean? What is the process? And a blank page isn't a movie. Practically speaking, you guys writing partners, do you sit down in the same room together? Are you writing separately? What is the process for you? Let's talk about specifically writing Naked Gun. Like what is the pro, what was the process?

Doug: Well, Naked Gun was a little bit different because also we wrote it with Akiva. Schaffer, our director who directed Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers and we developed a really good working relationship with him. And Akiva is an amazing director to work with because he's also a writer, first and foremost. So he understands what goes into writing. And when you pull one thread, you have to answer, you have to, it goes throughout the whole movie. Sometimes you'll get notes from directors and you'll be like, yes, that is not a tiny note.

That will, you know, bringing down the whole house of cards. So working with Akiva also, I would say just to piggyback on what Dan was saying. Also, I think for me at least, gave me the confidence, like, we can do this. Like Akiva is someone who I, whose taste we also trust, like, you know, implicitly. So him saying I think we can do this also gave us the go ahead. 

But the writing process of Naked Gun was wonderful. We basically went to Akiva's office every day. We treated it like a writer's room. We hired a writer's assistant. We knew we were going to be talking and pitching, and that doesn't happen. You don't do that for movies usually. But we were like, we know we need this. And we spent, you know, we talked about Naked Gun, we talked about Zaz, you know, Zuckers and Abrahams about what they did, what they created, other great spoofs, and then the action dramas that from the past and, you know, noirs from the past and then present.

And then we basically were like, we need to first create a good structure before we start trying to make this funny. And we spent the first two weeks trying to avoid as best we could, comedy and just talk about. What is the movie? Because the secret sauce of a great spoof movie is that the plot works, but you don't think about it.

You leave the movie being like, yeah, the plot was stupid. Who cares? Great. The moment you start thinking about the plot not making sense, you're done. You've lost your, you're. And the jokes will stop being funny. And the emotional arcs also, you can only just be purely funny for someone. 

Dan: The emotional arcs are just as important where it's like, you know, again, it's I, we take it as a compliment when people are like, sort of like brush it aside, like, well that part's easy. And you're like, yes, but if you fuck it up, it all goes away. And so like, you know, if you don't actually care about Frank saving, you know, Beth, if you know Liam saving, Pamela Anderson, like, you know, then the whole third act stops mattering, and you're already exhausted. And it's the secret failing of, you know, most, a lot of comedies is that the first 45 minutes are fucking awesome. They're hilarious. All the jokes are great, and then at a certain point you're like, eh, okay. You're kind of bored. And so the plot and the emotional arcs are deeply important to keep the audience. Maintaining that interest.

Lorien: Oh, absolutely. I thought Pamela Anderson was amazing too. Like, just–

Doug: –she's wonderful.

Doug: She's wonderful and jumps, dives right into it and commits and is not selling out any of the humor and is just being totally vulnerable and real and wonderful. And it helps completely. With the movie. So, I mean the, but like on a story level, if we're gonna get into the minutiae, like we, the amount of time we spent talking about.

What are Pam and Liam and, you know, Beth and Frank's history? How do we, what is the noir opening we want for them? And because you're dealing in tropes with spoofs, you want recognizable things and you wanna go fast. You don't have a ton of time to live in the character development and but, and you're allowed to be trite and trope.

And that's, but so you, so we were like, well, do we want, we talked about versions. We wrote versions where they had been married before they, and had split up. It was more of like a cast, some plank where they had been married and now she was married to the bad guy. Now she was with the bad guy. You know, we talked about all, and we tried all of these versions and again, I just don't think you would think of that when you watch a movie where someone is having a shit attack in a police car or you know, like having a threesome with a snowman. 

Like, but we did really talk about these things. We, you know, we were like, we broke down double indemnity. We like not to toot our own horns, but like it has to work on that level. And so the amount of iterations of this movie and like what that relationship was. They are countless. We went through, so we took it very seriously. 

Lorien: What's so interesting about that snowman scene for me, well, not interesting, inspiring, is that it really is emotional. It does tell an emotional story and has an emotional arc even though it's absurd and out there and go into different genres. But it is. When you get to the end of it, it feels emotionally satisfying between those two characters. 

Doug: It's likea standalone movie. It's a standalone movie in and of itself, that it has a beginning, middle, and end. That whole montage, you know, and that. You know, we all worked on that, but that is the genius of Akiva, like coming. 

Dan: Like that's a real, and I mean, in a story level though, that movie that's so wonderful. That's that. Montage, you know, we are, as we're writing the story, we're in, again, we're working our way down from these like very big concepts of like, all right, this is where we are in the movement of the story where Beth and Frank are falling in love and we need to like really solidify their bond.

And so like, this is, you know, so we're like, okay, well, sort of feels like a love montage. You know, like what, how do we solidify that, that emotional space? And then, you know, when we start thinking about the specifics of, okay, well the original Naked Gun has arguably the funniest like love montage of all time, right?

They have, if you remember like the full body condoms, they're going to see Apocalypse Now on a romantic date. It's so silly. And it's amazing. It's like some of the funniest bits of all time. They're like clothes lining people as they run on the beach. It's perfect. It's perfect, right? And, but they're doing.

They're taking a traditional love montage and they're writing the best possible jokes on top of it, and so we were very aware. In doing this movie where it's like there's some things that like can feel like echoes of the original movie and that's okay. And there's other things that will just feel like cheap imitations.

And we, and this was one where we were like, we really, we're not gonna beat them. We're not going to, we're not gonna like, it'll just feel like a cheap imitation if we just do a love montage and. We were like, we really have to zag here. We really have to do something that is deeply not the thing that you're expecting.

And so we were very aware, we started talking about the idea of like, oh, what if it turned into like a horror movie or something like that? And it really moves away entirely from the expectation. And then Akiva, just like in his sleep, had the snowman concept and was like, came in the next morning. He was like, it's this.

And we were like, yes. And so, but again, and even just on the larger pacing of it. We were, you know, very aware that like we were also in a place in the movie that, that we, it was, we needed to have something unexpected that the type and tone of the jokes were getting accustomed and we, you need to make sure that the audience is not getting too comfortable.

'Cause the laughter does require a surprise. And so it was also just a larger pace of the movie thing where we're like, okay we're ready for a different kind of comedy. 

Lorien: There's a fearlessness and a commitment to this whole movie in the writing, in the directing, in the comedy, everything that was. We don't see a lot anymore in sort of like spoofs and broad comedy like this. And it was really fun to be in it. And what the structure gave us is the comfort. Okay, this has a beginning, middle, and end. And I'm with you and I know it's gonna be satisfying all the way through, but the fearlessness is so inspiring 'cause that's how we need to be always writing. Writing. When did you get too fearless? When did it go too far and you had to pull back?

Dan: Fearless is an interesting term 'cause you know there's. I mean, without exaggeration, we came to set with an 800 page alt packet. So that is, we were prepared to, no one liked us on

Lorien: 800 pages.

Dan: Yeah. No one–

Lorien: –that's not, that's more time in your days than regular people.

Doug: We wrote so much in four months in Akiva's office. It was, you know, so once the movie was outlined at. We started breaking out scenes, we would all three go off and start writing different scenes, send them to each other, and whether or not like the scene was used, there would be a joke from that or whatever, and that's not even including now.

Let's go through and give and get alts. So we had multiple drafts and iterations of everything once we started writing jokes. There are a hundred jokes in those. And then we started punching up the script that we liked. And we knew that we knew that we were going to want to alts and we didn't. We just wanted them all there and then, and led to.

Dan: And, deeply to his credit, Liam Neeson is one of the greatest actors of all time. 

That's not a shocking thing to say, but he was basically perfect every first take. And so we, it just got to a point where he was like. Well, we got it. Like why would we not get more options? And, you know, we used it, we ended up with a ton of those alts in the movie. And again the DNA of these movies is, there's a comedy volume to these movies that is unlike almost literally any other modern type of comedy making. 

And so we were just very aware that like, you, we just need as much as possible. So there is a volume in this type of movie that is more than we would bring to any other set. But we were very aware that this was like, you know, and it's not improv in that way. It's not, they're not improv jokes like a habitat thing where it's like, let's just riff and see what happens.

Like they're all quite precise and sharp and so they need to be prepared. They need to be written. We were writing on set too constantly as things would come up, but, but it, so anyway, yeah that it's all to say that like we had, you know, this 800 page packet that we would show up with and be like, ah, okay. Okay. We're gonna, what about this? Can you say it like that? 

Doug: I think that so much of the lessons I learned on this movie also was. Really came from Akiva as well. There'll be two things. One, I think because Dan and I have been so fortunate to work and work on studio films, whether we're the first writers on or the last, or in the middle for better or worse, I think that like, like understanding what is going to get made and even, and softening things and sanding off edges because we know they're, they won't get a green light unless we play it safer, has for me at least, you know, the fear has invaded my brain to the point where like, good ideas and free thought can kind of be blocked. 

We were late one night writing the three of us, and this bit started about TiVo being unplugged and it, in the movie Buffy the Vampire, where Frank is like, what is that? That's my TiVo. And I told you not to plug it into the internet or that all slow be on. That was a bit that the three of us were doing. And like he was like, this is great. Let's keep doing it. And we just kept improvising and doing it and writing it down and doing it.

And I was like, well, this will never be in the movie. And he was like, why w why can't it be in the movie? And I was like, okay. It ended up in the movie. And if it wasn't for Akiva being like, no, like, what else can we do? And Sarah Michelle Gellar loves it. Like, don't stop yourself. Right. Perfect. You know, like, but that's the that fearless is like, these were own guard, my own guardrails that I was putting up after years of having ideas and big swings rejected that.

I was like, well, why we, why would we even waste our time with this? And Akiva was like, fuck that. I'm, we need to first tickle ourselves here, and this is making us laugh. And it was making us laugh wildly. And then the other thing is that with the snowman, the snowman's a big swing. And it was the thing and it's been very publicly talked about that Paramount wanted a cut.

From the beginning, before shooting it, it was, they didn't, it didn't seem necessary to them. They didn't quite get it. And it, and on a story level, they felt they could remove it, which they could have. But we were like, this is the best thing in the movie, maybe. Like, and none of us wanted it. And Akiva was like, I'll leave, I'll walk.

This is, that was his line in the sand. Like, we're not cutting. And they have, since, you know. They have owned it actually, which you never get, but been like we were wrong. But, so that's the fearlessness I would say as well, which is just being like believing in something and being like, and being prepared to fall on your face.

Like that's the, what's the worst thing that can happen? Like, yeah, you can make something that people don't like. It can, but if you believe in it, at least you'll go down knowing that you believed in it as opposed to being like, why didn't we just at least try that?

Dan: Another thing that like I just, this process was so delightful was just, you know, it's the commitment to these bits where like, I think about the the wall being pulled out of the police station or the crane pulling the car the, you know, the arcade game claw pulling a car out of the ravine and like, those are all enormous practical expenses.

And so like, it's just also, again, in this place where you're so accustomed to, you sit down at your first production meeting and the line producer's like. We're not doing that guys. And you're like, all right, I guess I get it. 

Doug: And there's no way we're gonna do it practically.

Dan: And you're just, you, you're so used to your heartbreaking and like being like, ah, there's only so many fights you can have. And just that, that on this movie was the deepest joy of it, where it was just like no. This is stupid. I'm not denying that. This is a stupid fucking joke. And nevertheless. It's worth it. And that like, that ability to say that the thing that is so silly and dumb is actually the most important thing going on here.

Doug: And I will say that Paramount for the most part also did believe in the movie. And, you know, like, I'll shout out John, who's our executive on it, and like he did believe in it. And you do need people to believe you need people. On the non-creative side of things to believe in it or it's, it'll get killed. Like people, the, everyone. So you, the relationships are important and there are, like, there is producing things that can happen and you know, Fuzzy Door is a producer, Erica Huggins. Like you need people who believe in the vision and in the and in this case, in the stupidity and the commitment to being like a comedy because really like comedy, like we're seeing comedy die. 

Like the first things they get cut, like Dan said, are just like, well, who cares? Like, and who cares if it looks practical? It was like, well, it'll look worse if it's done. You know, not practically it won't be as funny. And that matters. And we did have good partners and and that

Lorien: Well, congratulations. I thought it was really fun.

Doug: Thank you. Thank you.

Lorien: So. Obviously I could talk to you guys forever because you're hilarious. But we're gonna ask some the end of the episode questions now. What brings you the most joy when it comes to your writing?

Dan: The very beginning and the, and like the very end, and like the laughter and excitement I get from the early stages of the ideas where it's still all potential and you're like, Ooh, and it's this and this.And like the real invention stage at the front end is absolutely the spark that like I live for on a on a more day-to-day level where it's like, this is fucking so much fun. I like those. The moments where something's new and it's popping are the best. And then the moment where it's real on camera is stunning.

It's like every single time the thing that was in your brain is manifested into reality is a drug unlike anything else in the world. And it's. I get giddy. I mean, like, like I said, I'm in this audition process right now. I'm just getting my lines back from these amazing actors and like, it's crazy. It's so cool. I love it. It's magic. And so it's the front end where it's all potential and the back end where it becomes realized our, the best feelings in the world.

Doug: Yeah, I like it. I agree with everything Dan's saying. I would say that in the moment there are moments of discovery where it feels like maybe the character is telling you what to do. And I used to think that was bullshit. I used to hear Paul Thomas Anderson talk about that and be like, no, that's, who cares. That's not a thing. You're making that up. And then, but then I was like, oh no, this can happen. And you have to be open to it.

And it doesn't happen all the time. When it does, it's amazing. And I also say that like, the thing I'm still going for and you know, it's like Dan and I have been married for this long. We're almost, we're going on over 20 years. Basically being together is making Dan laugh. I still, with something, if writing a comedy or moving him in a scene where he is like, oh, this is, yeah, this is, you know, working.

Lorien: I think that's a great definition of marriage, right? Making your partner laugh, making, telling, sharing stuff with your partner like that, like moving them. 

Doug: Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, it's something that my wife and I talk about too, which is just like, don't get comfortable, like, like, you know, like still take me out on dates. It's, you know, it's just like the, you want that spark. So, and I'm not, you know, Dan and I have done a lot, we've been up and down, but it's mostly been like just a wonderful journey of, you know, and, but it's, but it is a marriage. 

It is, there's a give and take and there's heartbreak, and there's all those, you know, all those things. And there's fighting. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, he's still the, he's still the young boy from NYU I want to make laugh.

Dan: Aw, that's so sweet. It's very sweet. Doug. The true joy of having a writing partner and working with people is that like, you know, you make movies for an audience and which means that you make. If you have a writing partner, you have people you work with, and you're making it from the first moment for an audience, and I, especially in comedy, but I feel like this is in everything, but comedy is a communal experience. 

Comedy is something that requires a reaction. You want that reaction from the first moment you do it, you, it's very hard and not satisfying to just be like, I hope someone thinks this is funny in three years from now. It needs to be funny.

Lorien: All right. So what pisses you off about writing?

Doug: Almost everything. I am every day scared of it. I am every day, like almost every day fighting the imposter syndrome of it all. And I'm not, yeah, not feeling like I'm enough, not feeling like I'll ever come up with a great idea reading something else that's wonderful and feeling like I can never do that.

All of these things, it's just it's hard. Being at the base of the mountain and being like, this will never get done. Hate that part. Hate reading something that I finished and being like, that's terrible. I don't like this idea anymore. You know? Yeah. It, for me, it's a, it's, it is a, like a battle to be like, Hey, you can do this.

Be kind to yourself. Trust the process. Work it through. Just keep fucking writing. And then you get those moments. You get those moments of, you know, making someone laugh or the moments where the character speaks to you and you're like–

Lorien: –yeah–

Doug: –I like this and I'm lucky to be able to do this, and I'm grateful I get to do this and make a living doing this and I appreciate it.

Dan: I hate all the middle part is what kills you, which kills your soul, which is like, again, there's this beginning that is, is this creation. It's joyful. It's this explosion of creativity and it's like the most authentic version of. I feel like why we all jump into this 'cause like we have this creative spark we're trying to get out and it's the most fun, exciting thing. 

And then like, you know, obviously there's all this process of making something. I mean, it is like there's it's chipping away at marble before you're at a thing that you think is great. But that part's all, I enjoy that part. I like the discovery and the chipping away and the math and the building and all that part is like, exciting. It's the way that. You know, this business is not designed to make things. It's designed to reject things. And it's very hard.

You just want to be in a place where like good ideas can get made and they really, they almost never can. And every movie that comes out is a little miracle. Every movie that is good is a giant miracle. And so. That part is the TV show. Every project, every short film, every piece of creativity that is made is a miracle.

And so, you know that, that part is just so, is crushing, is just like God the, every time something is. Doesn't actually happen. It gets killed. It gets sanded down into something you never really wanted. It hard. It hurts. It hurts every time and you get better at it, hurting less and it hurts for less time and, but it never goes away.

Lorien: What advice would you give your younger self?

Doug: Yeah, I would say be kinder to yourself and write and keep writing and. Let go of the idea of perfection as soon as you can. And just write and love yourself and just, you know, enjoy the ride in the moment. And it's all gonna be okay.

Every this you're doing this for a reason, I guess, and just like. Be in it and appreciate it. And that's not to say I didn't do any of that. I did, I think I did do a lot of that as well. But that would, I would just kind of drill in the, you know, the be kind to yourself.

Dan: Yeah. I wish I'd learned the lesson and hell and did the lesson more of like, of, really taking joy and celebrating the small wins earlier. 'cause like I think I spent a lot of years having my eye on an end point. That, you know, is not, is year's your life And and the, it's not, it isn't the end point. It you know, once, once you accept that like, this is just who I am and I enjoy this on a day-to-day level, then.

And the little wins are as good as anything else. It really frees you up to like, just show up every day and be yourself. It, you're I'm much happier when I live that way and, you know, it's still sometimes a challenge, but it, I wish I'd learned that and believed it right in the beginning.

Lorien: Beautiful. Right. Last question. What's your proudest career moment?

Dan: There's early moments where you're like, the first time we walked onto a studio lot, or the first time we walked out of a studio office having gotten a sale, that was, you know, that's like, that's, there's nothing like it. It's like the moment you feel like you've become the person you wanted to be, but then you have to, you do that over and over again and you know, that.

I dunno. Naked Gun also had a lot of really pinch me moments because that set, unlike Rescue Rangers, which was so animated, this was a movie where things were really happening on set and they were like the most fun, best things in the world. And I think that got into me in a way that was really proud.

Doug: Naked Gun had a bunch of moments, but I remember us, Dan, myself, and Adam, who had been, you know, working on things and we, the first thing we wrote together and we shot a proof of concept you know, and sent it to everyone we knew in Hollywood, which was basically a couple assistants, one or two executives, maybe a manager, and just sent it out.

And I remember being at Upright Citizens Brigade Theater in Chelsea coming out of the basement where you didn't really get service and having a voicemail from, I don't remember who it was, but it was a reaction to the loving the thing that we said and wanting like to talk about selling this thing. And I remember the three of us kind of being together. And feeling like anything was possible. And it and I was experiencing it with my closest friends. It maybe worked and maybe we, the stars aligned on something and it ended up, it did. You know, we did sell it.

Lorien: Well, congratulations on the film and thank you so much for joining us. It's been an amazing chat. Thank you so much.

Doug: Thank you.